Monday, September 15, 2008
Christian Singer Ray Boltz Comes Out Of The Closet
A bit of heart breaking news - Christian singer Ray Boltz publicly announced that he is a homosexual last Friday during an interview with the Washington Blade. Boltz is known for mega Christian hits such as "Thank You" & "Watch The Lamb". He had retired from Christian music several years ago.
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Not to start a homosexuality fight, but you might want to modify your comment hoosier family because it's about as wrong as could possibly be.
ReplyDelete"You cannot have sin in your life and be HIS spotless bride."
In that case you are not part of HIS spotless bride, I am not, Eric is not, and no one else in all of history is either.
The problem is not Ray's homosexual inclinations -- we're all inclined to one sin or another. That's part of our depraved nature after the fall.
ReplyDeleteThe problem is his refusal to agree with God that it is sin, and as a consequence of that agreement with God, to fight against it. He has opted not to take the way out that God always provides when we are faced with temptation. He's basically calling God a liar, saying that what God calls sin isn't really wrong, and denying the power of the cross of Christ to give us victory over sin.
J - I think she was saying that you can't be living in ongoing sin, i.e., a practicing homosexual - and be the Bride of Christ.
ReplyDeleteBut I'm sure Ray Boltz is one of the nicest people you'd ever want to meet. :)
ReplyDeleteI'd like you to find someone who doesn't live in "ongoing sin".
ReplyDeleteHomosexuality isn't any sort of "special" sin that absolutely cannot be a part of a Christian's life while someone who lives in and defends his habits of gluttony, slothfulness, or greed is OK (as far as being saved).
J - if someone is living a lifestyle of ongoing, active sin - then that means they haven't repented. You can't be saved unless you repent. When an individual gets saved liars stop lying, adulterer's stop committing adultery, thieves stop stealing - 1 Cor. 6:9-10 - it's pretty simple actually...
ReplyDelete...and verse 11 as well!
ReplyDeleteI realize that we're talking about habitual sins that are done over and over. Got it.
ReplyDeleteThe problem is that none of us completely stop lying, being greedy, or lusting. Expecting homosexuality to be the one and only sin that MUST stop wholy and completely is nonsensical and un-Biblical.
I still haven't conquered lust by a long shot - it's a sin that I fall into continually, and yet I am still a saved person. Homosexuality isn't a fundamentally different sin than lust (in salvific terms). One Christian I knew blew my socks off when he admitted that he still struggled with pornography even though he was late 50s at the time (long time ago). Why is the sin of homosexuality different (again, in salvific terms) than lust/anger/selfishness/etc?
I disagree totally with your statement that "none of us completely stop lying, being greedy, or lusting." What's Christian growth then? What's discipleship then?
ReplyDeleteAlso I'm confused on your statements where you seem to think that someone is saying homosexuality is being treated differently than other sins? No one has said that or suggested that in any way. Sin is sin and must be abandoned - no matter what it is.
I agree with Eric that we can overcome sin. Do we enter into Baptism a dry sinner then come out a wet one? When we come to Jesus we must lay our lives on the altar, and leave whatever is sinful there, and not to be picked up again. As members of "The Kingdom" we are new creations in Christ, all things become new. We are no longer controlled by our flesh, but are overcomers in Christ. As Jesus said, to be His follower we must DENY ourselves, and pick up our cross and follow Him.
ReplyDeleteThe point was that we never completely set aside our sinful practices short of heaven - throughout our entire lives we continue to struggle and fight with habitual sins. We become more and more Christ-like as we mature, but we never completely set aside our sinning.
ReplyDeleteWe don't hold that someone has to completely stop sinning in lust, or pride, or whatever to be saved. However, it seems that homosexuality is a sin that people expect to be totally stopped in order to be a Christian.
Eric, you stated "I think she was saying that you can't be living in ongoing sin, i.e., a practicing homosexual - and be the Bride of Christ."
Substitute different sins in that statement.
"... you can't be a practicing luster ..."
"... you can't be a practicing grudge-holder ..."
"... you can't be a practicing prideful jerk ..."
Absolutely God works in our lives to bring us more and more into His image, but we'll never be completed in this world. We are not required to behave perfectly sinless lives, and so when it comes to pride, anger, lust, greed, etc, the response is rightly that we are Christians even while we still commit those sins. Christ's blood covers those sins that we continue to commit even after we place our trust in Him.
And then comes homosexuality - as far as I can tell, you hold that a person does have to perfectly throw off that sin to be a Christian, and that if a person practices homosexual sins, it is categorically different than someone practicing prideful sins.
PaulW is right - we are called to place our sins on the altar and leave our sins there. But, no one does that perfectly - everyone sins again, and we understand that. We sin in anger, pride, lust, greed, etc, and understand that even those sins we continue to commit are covered by the blood of Christ.
Except for homosexual sins; people can't commit homosexual sins and still be a Christian. At least that's what seems to be stated here.
Hey J, try this explanation. In the context of the linked article in which Ray Boltz has now begun to embrace this sinful lifestyle instead of doing his best to lay it on the altar and walk away from it as God gives him the grace and power to do so, is the sin of homosexuality being addressed. That is the bottom line of this discussion. Instead of laying it, homosexuality, gluttony, lying, pride, whatever, he is embracing and beginning to live the lifestyle and practice the practices that God has called abominable. Is that better?
ReplyDeleteJ - you said: "we never completely set aside our sinful practices short of heaven."
ReplyDeleteNo offense, but are you reading the same Bible as I am? Have you never met a delivered alcoholic or drug addict? Have you never met a man delivered from a porn addiction? Have you never met a delivered liar or thief?
Look at 1 Cor. 6:9-11:
9-Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,
10-nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
11-And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified,you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God."
Paul says in verse 11 that some of the saints used to be those things listed in verse 9-10 - but no longer!
We absolutely can completely set aside sinful practices - doesn't matter what the sin is!
One last comment, there's an old saying that goes..."You become what you love the most". You know there is a lot of truth in that in that statement. Good and bad! I pray we all love Jesus the most!
ReplyDeleteEric, so you've set aside ALL of your sinful practices? I assume not. Do you still expect to be in heaven even though you commit some sins over and over?
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely people can be and are set free from sinful habits, but NO ONE is set free from committing ANY sins. Everyone has some sinful habits that will be with them for their entire lives.
Just as a matter of fact, if you were to die today you would still be habitually selfish, or prideful, or lustful, or slothful, or whatever. You will still enter heaven because Christ's blood covers those sins.
For salvation, there's no fundamental difference between habitual lying, stealing, anger, lust, pride, selfishness, laziness or homosexuality. They are all covered by Christ's blood. The grudge-bearing Christian who is killed in a car accident is covered by Christ's blood. The prideful Christian is likewise covered, just as the lustful one. The homosexual Christian too.
Because I trust in Christ, my sins have been paid for by His blood; I will enter into heaven even though I still commit the sins of greed, lust, and selfishness regularly. I fight against them and Christ is working in me to continually transform me into his likeness and away from those sins. But, I still commit them. Even though I am still greedy, lustful and selfish, I am no longer a person on the list from 1 Cor because Christ has paid for my sins.
"Eric, so you've set aside ALL of your sinful practices?"
ReplyDeleteYes, J, I have. It's called repentance. But that doesn't mean I don't mess up once in a while nor does it mean that I'm perfect - but messing up once in a while is not habitually living in that sin.
Salvation is not just trusting Christ - you must repent of your sins. Jesus himself stated that.
It sounds like you are saying that you can continue living in sin or any immoral lifestyle and call yourself a Christian. Such belief is neither Biblical nor safe.
With that, we will end this ping pong match.